IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF AMADOR ---oOo--- The People of the State of California) Plaintiff, ) ) vs. ) No. 98-0767 ) ROBERT ROLAND WOMACK, DAVID STERLING ) MASON III and MARK SHERRILL, ) Defendants. ) _____________________________________) PROCEEDINGS HELD BEFORE THE GRAND JURY NOVEMBER 17, 1998 VOLUME IV APPEARANCES: For the People: DAVID J. IREY Deputy District Attorney Reported by: JAN BENEDETTI-WEISBERG, CSR No. 4643 933 1 ---oOo--- 2 WITNESS INDEX Page 3 DAVID MASON Examination by Mr. Irey 937 4 BRIAN DRAKE 5 Examination by Mr. Irey 1043 6 BOB VAN DE POL Examination by Mr. Irey 1049 7 NICK HERNANDEZ 8 Examination by Mr. Irey 1078 9 LOUIS PODESTA Examination by Mr. Irey 1152 10 GARY POGGIO 11 Examination by Mr. Irey 1155 12 SHERRY MARTIN Examination by Mr. Irey 1160 13 GARY URZIK 14 Examination by Mr. Irey 1173 15 KEITH TALLIA Examination by Mr. Irey 1192 16 JOHN CARSTENSEN 17 Examination by Mr. Irey 1258 18 ---oOo--- 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 934 1 E X H I B I T S 2 Exhibit No. Description Ref. 3 6 Reward Tag 1104 4 8 Photograph 1105 5 11 Tallia Bid 1204 6 19 Photograph 1104 7 21 Photograph 1090 8 22 Photograph 1092 9 23 Photograph 1103 10 25 Photograph 1091 11 26 Building Permit File 1177 12 27 Inspection Record 1104 13 28 Building Department Street File 1168 14 41 Photograph 1260 15 43 Oil Equipment Service Records 1202 16 61 1991 County Permit 1007 17 62 1988 County Permit 1008 18 66 Check to Hernandez 1098 19 67 Check to Hernandez 1098 20 68 Check to the City 1165 21 ---oOo--- 22 23 24 25 935 1 JACKSON, CALIF., TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 1998, 9:38 A.M. 2 BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF AMADOR COUNTY 3 ---oOo--- 4 THE FOREPERSON: We have all 19 with us this 5 morning, Mr. Irey. 6 THE SECRETARY: I will go ahead and call roll. 7 (Redacted.) 8 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXX: Here. 9 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) Here. 10 (Redacted.) 11 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXX: Here. 12 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 13 GRAND JUROR XXXXX: Here. 14 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 15 GRAND JUROR XXXXXX: Here. 16 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 17 GRAND JUROR XXXXX: Here. 18 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 19 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXXXX: Here. 20 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 21 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXX: Here. 22 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 23 GRAND JUROR XXXXXX: Present. 24 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 25 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXX: Present. 936 1 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 2 GRAND JUROR XXXXXX: Here. 3 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 4 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXX: Here. 5 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 6 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXX: Here. 7 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 8 GRAND JUROR XXXXX: Here. 9 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 10 GRAND JUROR XXXXX: Here. 11 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 12 GRAND JUROR XXXXXX: Here. 13 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 14 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXX: Here. 15 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 16 GRAND JUROR XXXXXXXX: Here. 17 THE SECRETARY: (Redacted.) 18 THE FOREMAN: Here. 19 MR. IREY: I just gave to my investigator the two 20 names the Grand Jurors wanted subpoenaed. We will try to 21 fit those people in today or tomorrow. 22 Our first witness is David Mason, Mr. 23 Mason's son. 24 THE FOREPERSON: Mr. Mason, good morning. If you 25 could remain standing and raise your right hand. 937 1 THE WITNESS: Take my jacket off. With long 2 underwear, it gets a little hot. 3 THE FOREPERSON: You do solemnly swear that the 4 evidence you shall give in this investigation now pending 5 before this Grand Jury shall be the truth, the whole 6 truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God. 7 THE WITNESS: I do. 8 THE FOREPERSON: Thank you. You may be seated. 9 10 (TIME NOTED: 9:31 A.M.) 11 ---oOo--- 12 DAVID MASON 13 Called as a witness herein by the People, 14 having been duly sworn to tell the truth, was examined 15 and testified as follows: 16 EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. IREY: 18 Q Mr. Mason, the court reporter is taking 19 down everything you say today. And so if you could 20 answer audibly yes or no, instead of shaking your head. 21 A Okay. 22 Q Okay. And the person all the way in the 23 back, he sits back there on purpose so we will see if 24 your voice carries. He is kind of like the drama coach 25 here. If you could speak up loudly all the way back. 938 1 A Head cold, so I take a cough drop. 2 THE FOREPERSON: Mr. Irey, do we have an 3 admonition to read at this time? 4 MR. IREY: Mr. Foreman, in the overabundance of 5 caution, if you could read that admonition, that would be 6 helpful. 7 THE FOREPERSON: You are advised under the Fifth 8 Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and 9 also under Article 1 of the California Constitution that 10 you have a privilege against self-incrimination. That is 11 to say, you do not have to answer any questions that may 12 tend to incriminate you or subject you to punishment for 13 a crime. And you can refuse to answer any such questions 14 by stating that the answer may tend to incriminate you. 15 Do you understand? 16 THE WITNESS: Hopefully, yeah. 17 THE FOREPERSON: Thank you. 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 Q BY MR. IREY: Mr. Mason, who is your 20 current employer? 21 A Toms Sierra Company. 22 Q And so the paycheck comes from Toms Sierra 23 Company? 24 How long have you been employed by Toms 25 Sierra Company? 939 1 A Approximately three years. 2 Q Prior to that, who was your employer? 3 A My father, which is Mason Oil Company, 4 which I am a member of the corporation. 5 Q Okay. And if you could, start with Toms 6 Sierra Company, and explain what your current position is 7 with Toms Sierra Company, and then your father's with 8 Toms Sierra Company. And then we will go back to the 9 corporate make-up of Mason Oil, please. 10 A Toms Sierra is a -- I am their division 11 manager, this area. My father works as -- oh, I don't 12 know what position you call -- sales position or 13 whatever. Anyway, he just gets to do whatever I give 14 him. He is a minimal employee for insurance purposes. 15 He just works there. 16 Q For insurance purposes being? 17 A Well, he gets insurance for his family and 18 for his wife and him and gets a small paycheck. 19 Q So he is actually your employee currently? 20 A Yeah. 21 Q And then prior to that, there was a Mason 22 Oil Company. Could you go over a brief history of Mason 23 Oil, who started it, things like that. 24 A Technically started with my grandfather, 25 1924. He was a -- he was a consignee for Associated 940 1 Oil. Then it went to Phillips 66. And they had an 2 antitrust suit and did away with Phillips 66 on the West 3 Coast back in the '60s, I think it was. 4 And then it was -- turned into Tosco. 5 Phillips 66 was bought out -- West Coast division was 6 bought out by Tosco Corporation. Tosco, we became a -- 7 they did away with consignees and became only direct 8 marketers, which is, you buy the product from the company 9 and you sell it to the community. That's what we did 10 until we were bought out by Toms Sierra three years ago. 11 Q So then at some point there in the late 12 '50s, early '60s, later, Mason Oil Company was formed? 13 A Yeah. It was formed under my dad, 14 incorporated as a corporation. I don't know exactly 15 when. It was a long time ago. It's still a 16 corporation. 17 Q Before you were an employee of Mason Oil 18 Company? 19 A Yeah. 20 Q Okay. 21 A I worked part-time for the oil company in 22 the summers and in vacations, you know, Christmas, 23 Thanksgiving, when I was going to college. And then 24 later became a full-time employee after I got out of 25 college. 941 1 Q Where did you go to college? 2 A California State University Sacramento. 3 Mechanical engineering. 4 Q And you have a degree in that? 5 A Yes. 6 Q What year did you get that degree? 7 A Long time ago. Let's see. I graduated in 8 '73. So '78, somewhere around there. I don't -- dates 9 aren't very -- I'm not very good with dates. 10 Q And then you became an employee of Mason 11 Oil Company full time? 12 A After a period of doing other jobs and 13 stuff. My dad found that he needed more help at -- in 14 the home business. And since I knew the business already 15 and was driving for him -- you know, I had driven for him 16 part-time in the summers and Christmas and Thanksgiving 17 and all that, filling in. He wanted me bad. 18 And he gave me a better -- he gave me a 19 better deal than what I was going to get working as an 20 engineer. Plus, I got to live in this community. I love 21 this community. Our family has been here -- I am the 22 fifth generation. And I got a son I am proud to raise 23 here, too. 24 Q So sometimes in the '70s or early '80s, 25 you came back to Amador County? 942 1 A (Witness nods head.) 2 Q Okay. Mason Oil Company gets bulk 3 deliveries and then -- is that still true? 4 A Yeah. It's Toms Sierra. But Toms Sierra 5 has their own trucks. They buy from Tosco. They buy 6 from all the majors, and then we redistribute it out of 7 our bulk plant there in Martell. 8 Q So from Martell bulk plant, you distribute 9 not only to facilities with Mason names on it, but to 10 other facilities, correct? 11 A Well, Toms facilities, and also other 12 stations and stuff. 13 Q So you have a bulk plant in Martell. 14 About how many gas stations do you distribute to from 15 there? 16 A See, in emergencies, due to -- we will 17 take care of Trading Post sometimes and other ones. 18 Mostly, those are taken care of directly. 19 What we do is, we will -- like today, one 20 of my drivers is going to deliver some to Amador Station, 21 because Amador Station is -- wants, like, 500 gallons. 22 And big gas trucks, the big truck and trailers, don't 23 haul small amounts like that. He will go up and deliver 24 500 gallons to that station. And he will go on and 25 deliver home deliveries. 943 1 Q So to card locks, what is commonly 2 referred to as gas stations, home deliveries? 3 A Yes, yeah. 4 Q Home heating fuels also; but no propane? 5 A Don't have propane trucks. 6 Q What types of products are at the bulk 7 plants? 8 A All light refineds, which means kerosene, 9 gasoline, diesels, the two different types of diesels, 10 clear and red, and premium and regular gasoline. We 11 don't have any plus. 12 Q Red diesel being farm fuel, ag fuel? 13 A Red fuel meaning it doesn't have State and 14 Federal taxes on it. Doesn't necessarily mean for a 15 farm. It means for, like, heavy equipment, that kind of 16 stuff. Not for motor vehicle use. It doesn't have road 17 taxes on it. 18 Q Okay. And you said that you are currently 19 a corporate officer of Mason Oil? 20 A As far as I know now, unless Dad has 21 dissolved the corporation, yes, I am a corporate 22 officer. I think I am president. But there is... 23 Q Do you know -- so you don't know what your 24 title is? 25 A I think I am president, you know. I 944 1 don't -- you have to ask so many people to be in a 2 corporation, but the corporation was just formed for us 3 to market as a... 4 Q As a? 5 A I don't know. There was -- when it was 6 originally formed, there was some tax benefits, but I 7 don't think they are there any more. I don't even know 8 what the reasoning is. I have asked him several times, 9 and -- 10 Q Does he answer? Or does he not answer? 11 A Well, he doesn't really answer, because he 12 doesn't -- see, he has thought about dissolving it, too. 13 I think it's more expensive to dissolve it than keep it 14 going. One of those balls that gets rolling, it's 15 cheaper to just keep it going than -- until they have 16 dispersed all the Mason Oil properties and they are -- 17 not Mason Oil properties, but all of his properties. 18 Unless they are dispersed, then it's not -- from what I 19 understand -- I don't know. 20 You are more of a lawyer -- you are a 21 layer, so you know more than I do about that. 22 Q He may have been right the first time. 23 One of the things that the Grand Jurors 24 are trying to determine is who is who in the zoo. I am 25 trying to help them determine that. I am going to try 945 1 and ask you specific questions. 2 A If I can answer, I will answer them for 3 you. 4 Q Then I might ask you if you have any idea 5 where the paperwork might be kept. They also have the 6 power to subpoena paper records. 7 A Good luck. I don't have any idea where 8 any of the paperwork is. I tried to find some checks one 9 time, corporate checks. And I spent almost two years 10 looking for 'em and I never found them. So good luck. 11 Q Okay. So you might be the president of 12 Mason Oil, Inc. Correct? 13 A Right. 14 Q But you are pretty sure you are a 15 corporate officer? 16 A I know I am corporate officer. 17 Q Who else is a corporate officer of Mason 18 Oil, Inc.? 19 A My dad is and my brother. 20 Q Your brother named? 21 A Scott. 22 Q Okay. 23 A I don't know. I think there is another 24 one. I am not sure whether it was -- used to be Grace 25 Skeen, but now it's not Grace Skeen any more. 946 1 Q Grace Skeen? 2 A Yeah, she was our secretary. 3 Q How do you spell Skeen? 4 A S-K-E-E-N. 5 Q Okay. 6 A She is no longer -- that was -- she is no 7 longer any more. So I don't know whether my brother 8 became secretary or -- this was before Toms Sierra bought 9 Mason Oil. 10 Q Okay. 11 A And I don't know. 12 Q Before we get into the specific handling 13 of 505 Sutter Street, which is the primary focus of this 14 Grand Jury, could you walk us through the Toms Sierra 15 purchase issue. 16 It's our understanding there were some 17 serious financial issues leading to the purchase by Toms 18 Sierra. If you can recall? 19 A You mean the Toms Sierra purchase? 20 Q Correct. 21 A When it purchased the Mason Oil, are you 22 talking about? Is that what you are talking about? Or 23 purchasing what? 24 Q What did Toms Sierra purchase? 25 A Well, they didn't purchase anything, other 947 1 than blue sky. 2 Q Other than what? 3 A Other than blue sky. 4 Q That's what they purchased? 5 A Blue sky and inventory and some of our 6 equipment. 7 Q Inventory sitting inside the -- 8 A Tanks. Stuff we haul. 9 Q And equipment being motor vehicles? 10 A Right. 11 Q So they did not purchase dirt? 12 A What? 13 Q They didn't purchase dirt, as opposed to 14 blue sky? 15 A No, not under my understanding. I was -- 16 you know, that was -- they -- that was worked out with my 17 dad and Toms Sierra. 18 Q Did you have to sign paperwork as the 19 president? 20 A No. I don't think so. 21 Q Okay. 22 A I don't remember any at the time. 23 Q Okay. So Mason Oil sold out to Toms 24 Sierra? 25 A And our accounts receivable was part of 948 1 it, too. 2 Q So let's say people owed you $400,000, 3 then Toms Sierra purchased that? 4 A Yeah. It came with it, yeah. So that was 5 an actual asset, you know, assets, as far as that goes. 6 Q Okay. And what did Mason Oil get for 7 that? 8 A Uh, they got relinquished debt that we 9 owed against the product, as far as I know. And that's 10 about it. 11 Q So at that time -- 12 A And then Dad got a lease. He got a lease 13 payment for the properties, for our properties, from Toms 14 Sierra. 15 Q Two things. Release of debt and monthly 16 lease payments? 17 A For minimum five years, and then it was 18 reupped after that. 19 Q About what year did this happen? 20 A This happened three years ago 21 approximately. 22 Q So you are still in the first five-year 23 part of the lease? 24 A Right. 25 Q Okay. Did your dad owe a million plus to 949 1 Toms Sierra? 2 A I don't know what he owed. 3 Q Did your corporation owe a million plus to 4 Toms Sierra? 5 A As I said, I don't know. I don't know 6 what they owed. At the time, the figures were -- the 7 figures were down -- they put 'em down on the thing. The 8 debts were canceled back and forth. And that -- I think 9 it was somewhere around a million dollars. I am not 10 sure. 11 But the payback for my dad was the lease 12 payment. And that was to cover his debts to me and my 13 brothers and sisters and other debts that he owed. 14 Q Okay. So if you know, your dad had 15 been -- I can't testify. 16 Your dad had been keeping his chin above 17 water to keep the business solvent? 18 A Yeah. He had borrowed from me and my 19 brothers and sister to keep the business solvent, yeah. 20 Q And then Toms Sierra came and bought him 21 out? 22 A (Witness nods head.) 23 Q Toms Sierra being Roy Toms? 24 A Yeah. Well, he is -- he was at the time 25 the owner, the president, CEO of Toms Sierra. Which was 950 1 the person that we were buying our product from, so... 2 Q Was Roy Toms? 3 A Well, it was Toms Sierra. 4 Q Okay. And that's his corporation or was 5 his corporation? 6 A Yeah. He was -- you know, that's another 7 family-held corporation. 8 Q And the last two or three months, someone 9 bought Toms Sierra, correct? 10 A Right. I think a month ago, month and a 11 half ago. I am not exactly sure of the date. It's been 12 going on for almost over a year. So the exact date -- we 13 call every month and find out, Well, it's a month 14 farther. It's a month farther. 15 So they spent -- from what I understand -- 16 I don't know. I hear all kinds of things. Some lawyers 17 made a awful lot of money on it, million and a half, $2 18 million, something like that, putting it together. But 19 it took 'em over a year to do it. 20 Q And they bought everything that Toms 21 Sierra -- to your knowledge, they bought all of Toms 22 Sierra? 23 A I think Roy and Nick kept some stations, 24 but I am not sure. That was their deal. And we -- you 25 know, all we knew -- all we were told was that our deal 951 1 was going to continue on with what they did. 2 Q And the new company is called? 3 A Toms Sierra. Same. 4 Q The company -- 5 A Five people -- from what I understand, 6 five people put together a consortium that bought Toms 7 Sierra and they are keeping the name Toms Sierra. 8 Q Sierra Trading Post. Those are Toms 9 Sierra? 10 A No. They are one of our customers. 11 Q Okay. Three years ago, there was a 12 purchase -- Mason Oil Company, itself, still is a corp 13 A As far as I know, it is. 14 Q What does Mason Oil Company own? 15 A Nada, as far as I know. That's why I 16 never paid much attention as it was -- it was a 17 corporation just for -- for liability, I guess, whatever. 18 I don't know. I don't know exactly what it was formed 19 for. Some tax benefits and some other things. That's 20 the only reason that I ever heard that we ever formed it. 21 Q So Mason Oil never wrote you a check? 22 A Mason Oil wrote me a check, writes me a 23 check every month for the lease payment. The money -- I 24 think the money comes from the lease from Toms and then 25 goes to -- goes to Mason Oil. I don't know. 952 1 I am trying to think if my last check was 2 from my dad. I don't know. 3 Q Okay. 4 A I'm sorry to be so vague, but I just don't 5 pay -- my wife banks all my money. I don't know how you 6 guys are, but I never see my paycheck. 7 In fact, one of the running jokes is at 8 the bank, they go, Gosh, Dave, you sure you are Dave 9 Mason? I have stock in Bank of Amador. And so it's 10 funny, but it's true. I just never -- I never do any of 11 my banking or anything. She gives me what money I have 12 and that's it. 13 Q Okay. So -- 14 A I call her -- she calls me the drone, you 15 know. 16 Q Okay. Does the lease checks come to your 17 house? Or do you pick them up at Mason Oil? 18 A I pick it up at Mason's Oil. I pick it up 19 at Toms Sierra. 20 Q In Ione? 21 A My dad's office. 22 Q In Ione? 23 A Yeah. 24 Q That's a Toms Sierra office? 25 A Right. 953 1 Q The main Toms Sierra office is in Colfax, 2 if that's true? 3 A As of right now, it is. I hear they are 4 buying a piece of property and building a new office 5 somewhere between Auburn and Colfax, I heard. I don't 6 know exactly where. You hear all kinds of rumblings. 7 Q That's the main office? 8 A That's the main office. 9 Q What kind of paperwork is kept at the main 10 office? 11 A All the Toms Sierra paperwork is kept at 12 the main office. 13 Q What kind of paperwork is kept in Ione? 14 A Our tags for our sales, daily sales. What 15 else? You know. 16 Q I am asking you. I don't know. 17 A That's -- we -- our office, we take care 18 of the customers for -- Toms Sierra customers at the card 19 lock, whatever. When we get out in the field, I write a 20 tag out. We keep one tag at the office. The customer 21 gets the other tag. I think there is two or three other 22 ones that go in the garbage. 23 Q Okay. When you lease your stations to 24 Toms Sierra, did you sign a contract? 25 A I didn't sign any contract. 954 1 Q Okay. Did you delegate your authority in 2 the corporation to your father to sign the contract? 3 A He is C.E.O. that -- I don't know whether 4 it was leased to Mason Oil or Dave Mason or whether it 5 was leased to Mason and Family Trust. There is three 6 different organizations. And I don't know where it is. 7 Q What's the Mason Family Trust? 8 A That's the Mason Family Trust was when my 9 mom died. 10 Q Late '70s? 11 A Yeah. I -- yeah. I remember right, 12 yeah. She died of cancer. 13 Anyway, my dad formed a corporation, 14 formed the family trust then, so that hers would be 15 separate from his. And I don't know exactly what the 16 separation was, but that was if -- you have to talk to -- 17 they have a -- they have a trust lawyer, I guess or 18 something. I don't know exactly who it is. 19 Q Whom? 20 A Who? 21 Q Yeah. 22 A I don't -- I know who our corporate 23 lawyers are, but I don't know what -- whether they are 24 the same or not, Dave. I really don't know. 25 They are -- that's why I was -- when you 955 1 asked me, I hate to sit up here and look like an idiot, 2 but I just don't know these things. Because I don't deal 3 with it. And since I don't -- since I don't deal with 4 it -- my dad's personal stuff I think of as not my 5 business. I don't check into that. 6 Q Again, if you can't recall, maybe at the 7 end of each question, you might give us a list of two or 8 three people who would be most familiar with that. 9 For instance, I don't know how much the 10 checks are; my wife would know. Or I don't know anything 11 about the living trust. 12 A I know how much the checks are for. And I 13 know they come from my dad. But I can't tell you 14 whether -- I don't remember whether they come from a 15 Mason Oil Company or whether they come from Mason Family 16 Trust or whether they come from Dave Mason. I never -- I 17 just sign 'em and that's it. 18 Q So you don't know? 19 A You can ask my dad. He would be glad to 20 tell you. 21 Q Hypothetically, we might not be able to 22 talk to your dad in front of this forum. That's the 23 problem there. 24 A Oh, okay. 25 Q Nor, hypothetically, your mom. As you 956 1 know -- and the Grand Jurors don't know -- yesterday I 2 called and released her, based on information -- 3 A She is not my mom, but yes. 4 Q Based on the stress and cancer and things 5 along those lines. 6 A This is my stepmom. 7 Q There are privileges against testifying 8 against your spouse and your stepmom is married to your 9 dad, right? 10 A Right. 11 Q There are privileges that your father 12 holds. So we may not ever talk to those two 13 individuals. So you can give us their names. That would 14 be helpful. 15 But also maybe you could tell us where the 16 banks are or where the attorneys are or where the 17 accountants are and we might be able to figure it out 18 that way. If that's possible. If you don't know, you 19 don't know. 20 A I'm sorry, you know. 21 Q So Toms Sierra writes a monthly check to 22 either David Mason, Mason Oil or Mason Family Trust? 23 A (Witness nods head.) 24 Q He has to hear you all the way in the back. 25 A Yes. 957 1 Q And that check is for X dollars per month? 2 A Yeah. It's been renegotiated several 3 times, but yeah. 4 Q So it's renegotiated? 5 A Well, see, as the -- the properties 6 diminished. 7 Q Volume? 8 A Yeah. Like, when they closed a station, 9 he did away with the station. 10 Q 505? 11 A Yeah. And see, Dad gets so much, and then 12 he has to pay payments to, like, he was -- he has been 13 paying payments to, like, Earl Ferrari. 14 Q Who is? 15 A He owns the property next to us at the 16 Martell bulk plant. 17 Q Downhill? Uphill? Behind you? 18 A Well, behind us is the mill. And to the 19 left of us is the mill. And to the right of us is 20 Ferrari. It's where our road is there. 21 Q To the right would be uphill? 22 A Yeah, it would be. 23 Q It would be closer toward -- 24 A Martell is uphill. It's all uphill. Our 25 plant is like -- 958 1 Q Further away from Stockton? 2 A No. That's -- it would be north. Or 3 actually, it would be west. West, wouldn't it? 4 Q So it's an easement for the use of a road? 5 A Yeah. 6 Q So he writes a monthly check? 7 A To Ferrari. 8 And then part of it goes to -- then part 9 of it goes to -- to my cousins, too. 10 Q Are they part of the Mason -- 11 A For the lease payment. 12 Q -- Family Trust? 13 A No. It's for the lease of the station in 14 Ione, the card lock. 15 Q So your cousins own the Ione card lock 16 dirt? 17 A Dirt. 18 Q We are into who owns dirt versus tanks in 19 a few minutes. 20 Money comes into one of these three groups 21 and somebody writes checks out to pay some of the bills, 22 correct? 23 A Mm-hmm. 24 Q Do you sign any of those checks? 25 A (Witness shakes head.) 959 1 Q Again, she can't type -- 2 A No. No, I don't. 3 Q Okay. Does your brother Scott sign any of 4 those checks? 5 A No, he doesn't. 6 Q Does your stepmother Miriam sign ever any 7 of the checks? 8 A No, she doesn't. She doesn't have 9 anything to do with that. 10 Q Who signs the checks? 11 A My dad signs the checks. 12 Q Money comes from one of these three -- to 13 one of these three groups, and your dad pays bills out of 14 it? 15 A I think it goes out of Mason Oil. I am 16 not sure. 17 Q You don't -- did you get paid today? You 18 don't have a check in your wallet we could look at? 19 A I got some birthday money, because 20 yesterday was my birthday. That's it. 21 Q Happy birthday. 22 A I thought it was real nice yesterday when 23 you called me. 24 Q Thirty-four or 44? 25 A Forty-four. 960 1 Q Okay. 2 A That's why my son is my 40th birthday 3 present. 4 Q Don't get need to get into that, Mr. Mason. 5 A He is a redhead like you. 6 Q Okay. So then your dad writes you a 7 check. Does he write you five checks because there were 8 five leases? Or is it one big lease, if you know? 9 A He doesn't -- I don't get paid anything 10 from the leases. I get paid -- I get paid for what my 11 loan is that I loaned him some money when my grandmother 12 died. I loaned -- I loaned -- I don't know whether it 13 was -- it was my dad. I loaned him some money when my -- 14 to keep Mason Oil afloat when my grandmother died. And I 15 have loaned him money against my house as another loan 16 later to keep us afloat. 17 Q So the checks you are getting, it's not 18 Scott, you and David, your father get checks. It's just 19 that your dad is making loan payments? 20 A Right. 21 Q So out of his lease, he makes loan 22 payments? 23 A Right. As I said, the debts are paid out 24 of the lease payment. And that was the understanding of 25 it. And that's why he got it over five years, because he 961 1 owed so much money against Mason Oil -- I mean, against 2 the -- against the company or whatever you want to call 3 it. I don't know exactly how you put it. 4 Q Okay. Then recently you loaned your dad 5 another 20,000 plus? 6 A Yes, I did. 7 Q You told us the first time we chatted with 8 you that your wife didn't know about that? 9 A Right. 10 Q Does she know now? 11 A No. 12 Q If there is an indictment, about 20 days 13 after the indictment, this becomes public record. So 14 plus or minus, you will know how to -- 15 A The money has been repaid. 16 Q Okay. So -- 17 A But it's still -- I told you that in 18 confidence. I asked you not to -- and I told you that in 19 confidence. And I asked you not to say that to public, 20 because it was not a public matter. And you immediately 21 brought it out. 22 Q I have to bring out the truth to the 23 Members of the Grand Jury. They have received 24 information that there is a document for $80,000, of 25 which the Womacks only kicked in 30,000. So they have 962 1 wondered where that other $20,000 came from. 2 A You mean 60,000. 3 Q I apologize. And I apologize for that 4 part of it. We can try to get that two minutes of the 5 transcript tied up, but they have to know where the 6 $20,000 came from. Because the paperwork is not clear on 7 where the 20 -- I think it's $20,700 or something along 8 those lines. I apologize for that. 9 A I was not explained that when I was told 10 that. But that's neither here nor there. It's too late 11 now. 12 Q So -- 13 A That was personal money that I -- I 14 inherited some stock that I have been investing for the 15 last twenty something years. And I have an account 16 against it that I can write out of it. And my father was 17 in bad shape and so I did it. 18 Q It was an emergency loan? 19 A It was a -- it was because he is my 20 father. I wouldn't have done it for anybody else. 21 Q Okay. Well, maybe we can get into, 22 before we get into who owns the dirt, the loan that 23 precipitated the sale to Womack. 24 That loan, was it from Mason Oil, David 25 Mason or Mason Family Trust, if you know? 963 1 A It must have been from Mason Family Trust, 2 because it was all -- it was against all of my dad's 3 properties. 4 And it was -- this was the savings and 5 loan debacle. We had a loan from Washington Savings. 6 And there was supposedly no problem in transferring it. 7 They transferred it to, like, five different places. One 8 of them was Wilmington Trust. The other one -- seemed 9 like every year, we got another name in the mail we are 10 supposed to send our money to as we were gradually 11 supposedly paying this loan off against it. 12 And the last company was going to -- what 13 they wanted, they wanted immediate payment of the loan, 14 is what they wanted. 15 Q And they started pushing that issue late, 16 late '97? 17 A I can't -- it went on for a long time. 18 Because first we had the station sold. And then we were 19 able to borrow money against our own building there in 20 Ione. 21 Q When you say "the station sold," that. 22 Would be 505 Sutter? 23 A Yeah. It was -- there was a guy who was 24 there who was working there, and supposedly had money and 25 he was going to buy it. And we had it all -- in fact, we 964 1 had it all signed and ready to do. Then the money never 2 came up. He was inheriting it from his father. Oh, it 3 was just one thing after another. 4 And we -- you know, we paid most of the 5 loan off with the loan against the property in Ione. And 6 then there was a -- then we were renegotiating with them, 7 trying to get them to release some of it. Because 8 virtually all of the loan at this point was all 9 interest. It wasn't -- it wasn't -- the principal had 10 been paid off, more than paid off, through the years we 11 had been paying our payments. 12 And we knew that they paid, like, 5 13 percent on the dollar, which they -- they did negotiate 14 lower than what it was supposed to be, but it was 15 never -- it was the 80,000 or whatever it was exactly -- 16 I don't know exactly. I think it was 80,000 was what was 17 left. 18 And Dad could refinance his house, but 19 because they had a lien against it, he couldn't refinance 20 his house and get the money out of it to pay this 21 20,000. So it was like Catch 22. There he was with 22 plenty of -- 23 Q Equity? 24 A -- equity in his house, but he couldn't 25 get the equity out of his house, because he couldn't get 965 1 them to release the house until he got the money to them. 2 Q So he had to get this $80,000 note paid? 3 A The note paid. 4 So that's where -- and Womack would only 5 give him that much for it. And so that's why I took -- I 6 took the initiative myself. He never asked me for it. I 7 went and got a check for it. Gave him the money. I 8 said, Do it so you can get out from under this thing. 9 Get it done. Get us behind it. And then... 10 Q If we can go back to the initial sales 11 price on that property was in the mid 130s? 12 A Yeah. We had it sold at that. 13 Q And you had it listed through whom? 14 A Through him? 15 Q Through whom. Sorry. 16 A It wasn't listed through anybody. It was 17 a direct sale from my dad to a person. 18 Q And the person's name? 19 A Tom Brito was his name. He is gone to 20 Hawaii. 21 Q Is that the guy who that was operating the 22 surplus store out of there? 23 A Right. 24 Q Okay. Do you know if that was a -- I 25 guess we should go into the dirt. Let's do the 505 966 1 dirt. 2 Who owned that location at 505 Sutter? 3 A I think Mason Family Trust did, but I am 4 not sure. 5 Q Okay. And you don't remember the name of 6 the lawyers for the Mason Family Trust or any of that? 7 A Well, the corporate lawyers are Cinnamon, 8 Haagen and whatever it is. I don't know. They got some 9 long name. 10 Q Here in town? 11 A No. They are out of Sacramento. 12 Q Sacramento? 13 A I don't think there is any corporation 14 lawyers in town. 15 Q So who owned the tanks at 505 Sutter? 16 A I think Mason Family Trust did, but I am 17 not sure. 18 Q You don't think Mason Oil, Inc.? 19 A No. As I said, I don't think Mason Oil, 20 Inc. ever owned -- they owned the trucks, the business 21 part. But Mason Family Trust, I think, owned all of the 22 properties. But that's just my -- 23 Q Best guess? 24 A Yeah. 25 Q Okay. So then the building would have 967 1 been owned probably by Mason Family Trust also? 2 A Which building? 3 Q The building at 505 Sutter. 4 A Yes. 5 Q So tanks -- 6 A Which is my dad. 7 Q Who else signs off on Mason Family Trust? 8 Do you? 9 A No. 10 Q Okay. So Mason Family Trust owns dirt and 11 tanks. 12 And the contract with Mr. Womack -- have 13 you seen the contract with Mr. Womack? 14 A I haven't seen nothing. 15 Q Okay. So and then the person who puts the 16 gasoline in the tank the last three years is Toms Sierra? 17 A Mm-hmm. 18 Q And then the person who pays for that 19 gasoline is whom? 20 A Tom Brito was paying for it. 21 Q So Tom could call up Ione plant and say, 22 Please bring me 500 gallons next Thursday. And you would 23 say, We will be there, Tom. 24 A Yeah. Have the cash ready for us. 25 Q How do you spell his name? How long did 968 1 Tom Brito -- 2 A B-R-I-T-O, I think. 3 Q Okay. How long did he lease the station 4 for? 5 A I don't know. He was in again, out again 6 type deal, you know. 7 Q No, I don't. 8 A You know, he was going to close it, then 9 he was -- he was getting the money together. So he kept 10 closing it to go do that. He was in there for about -- I 11 don't know. I have no idea. 12 It was -- it happened after they fired the 13 guy that was there managing it for Toms Sierra. So he 14 was there for maybe a year, maybe more. I don't know. 15 Q So "they fired" meaning Toms Sierra fired 16 some guy? 17 A Yeah. They had a guy in there who -- 18 well, he was there when we were there, who was running it 19 for Mason Oil. He had small repairs, and then he also 20 sold gas out of it. 21 Q This is somebody who had a lease with -- 22 A No lease. He was an employee of Mason Oil 23 Company. 24 Q So Mason Oil Company actually operated the 25 gas station? 969 1 A For a while, yes. 2 Q Mason Oil monthly would write the manager 3 a check? Or would you just let him do repair business 4 and not get -- 5 A No, no. We collected the money, gave him 6 a regular hourly check like a regular employee. 7 Q So he is your mechanic, Mason Oil Company, 8 Inc.? 9 A When he was working for Mason Oil, yeah. 10 Q At some point, Toms Sierra fired him? 11 A Mm-hmm. 12 Q His name was? 13 A Lee. I forget what his last name was. 14 This was quite a while ago. 15 Q So this -- 16 A Couple years ago. 17 Q If Toms Sierra fired him, it would be less 18 than three years ago. 19 A Yeah. But still, last name, I don't 20 know. In fact, he lived next door to me. 21 Q He doesn't live there any more? 22 A No. Hasn't lived there for a long time. 23 Q So Mason Oil fires him? 24 A No. Toms Sierra fires him. 25 Q Toms Sierra fires him. Then Toms Sierra 970 1 brings in this guy Brito? 2 A No, no. Toms Sierra closes the station. 3 This guy Brito wants to buy the station. So he pays a 4 payment, you know. So he pays to Toms Sierra a payment 5 and he also buys gas from Toms Sierra. 6 Q Okay. Then at some point he leaves? 7 A Right. 8 Q Does he tell you ahead of time he is going 9 to leave? 10 A No. He is a midnight rambler. He left. 11 Q And do you know when that was, plus or 12 minus two or three months? 13 A Yeah, plus or minus two or three months, 14 over a year and a half ago. 15 Q Summer of '97? 16 A No. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't 17 exactly... 18 Q Who would know? 19 A Well, see, he -- he left, but he was -- he 20 still owed Toms Sierra money for gasoline. And so we 21 diddled around with it for a while trying to get the 22 money out of him. His wife was working at Wal-Mart. 23 And then, all of a sudden, they just up 24 and disappeared one night. 25 Q Owing several thousand dollars? Or a 971 1 couple thousand dollars? Or do you know? 2 A Owing some money. I don't know exactly 3 how much. 4 Q Did the guy make the lease payments to 5 your dad or not? 6 A I think the sales of the gasoline was to 7 cover the lease. There was no lease payment. And then 8 he was going to buy the station. 9 Q So keeping the gas station open, your dad 10 kept getting a lease from Toms Sierra? 11 A Well, no. Dad never got any specific 12 lease from Toms Sierra on the property because the 13 station was closed. So that was -- the lease payment was 14 made smaller, anyway, so that was no lease payment on 15 that. 16 Q So when Brito -- 17 A Brito. 18 Q When Brito walked, he didn't owe your dad 19 money; he owed Toms Sierra money? 20 A He owed Toms Sierra money. He might have 21 owed my dad money for other things, but I don't know 22 exactly what. 23 Q So that's summer of '97? 24 A Yeah. 25 Q There was gas in the tank until when? 972 1 A After we exhausted all possibilities, 2 pumped out the gas. 3 Q Are there records of that somewhere? 4 A It was considered part of our inventory. 5 I just put it back in my inventory. So there probably 6 isn't any records of it. Because I had to do it on my 7 own time, go down, do it, get it out. 8 Because I didn't want to let it sit any 9 longer than possible because gasoline, after you sit for 10 very long, it's no good. It loses its vigor. Whatever 11 you want to call it. 12 Q Toms Sierra took back their gas? 13 A It was always considered Toms Sierra gas. 14 Put it back in my inventory. I had to consider it in my 15 inventory every month anyway. 16 Q Did you tell Toms Sierra you were going to 17 do this? 18 A No. They knew it was part of their 19 inventory. They let me do whatever I wanted to do. 20 Q You are the boss? 21 A I am the boss. 22 Q So you don't know whether you pumped 100 23 gallons out of each tank or 500 gallons out of each tank? 24 A It was more than that. It was -- I don't 25 know -- 500 gallons at the most, five, 600 gallons. So 973 1 probably two, 300 in each tank. 2 It wasn't very much in there, because I 3 didn't want to leave very much in there, because if he 4 skipped, then I would lose all that money. You know, I 5 mean, if he took a whole bunch with him, be gone. 6 Because he had keys for it. 7 Finally I went down, put our locks on it 8 and everything, looked it all up. 9 Q Locked the pumps? 10 A Yeah. 11 Q And locked the fill and input, output? 12 A Yeah. 13 Q Okay. 14 A But that was already locked. We always 15 lock -- usually lock on situation like that. Especially 16 when you got downtown, you know, you never know who is 17 coming in and out. All kinds of things can happen. You 18 don't want people being able to put anything in it. 19 Q Okay. So then that the tanks are what you 20 consider empty? 21 A Dry. 22 Q But how many tanks have you emptied to 23 know that the tanks were dry? 24 A How many tanks have I pumped out in my 25 lifetime in 25 years? 974 1 Q Yeah. All the way to where you know they 2 were empty? 3 A I have pumped thousands and thousands and 4 thousands of 'em, you know. 5 Q All the way empty? 6 A Well, as far as I -- as far as -- I pump 7 it down to about a quarter of an inch with my pump, half 8 an inch to a quarter of an inch. 9 Q And that's left behind? 10 A That's left behind to evaporate or 11 whatever happens to it. 12 Q Okay. At that point, as a mechanical 13 engineer, you have a gas tank that is mostly vapor and 14 just a little bit of gas, correct? 15 A Right. 16 Q And is that vapor flammable, to your 17 knowledge as a mechanical engineer or as someone in the 18 gas business? 19 A Yeah, it's flammable. 20 Q Okay. 21 A Anything is flammable. You are flammable, 22 you know. 23 Q So you remember doing this. You remember 24 pumping these tanks out. You don't remember when or -- 25 A It was at least -- at least five or six 975 1 months before this action. 2 Q Early '98, late '97? 3 A Somewhere around there. Maybe even before 4 that. 5 Q This contract you had with this Brito guy 6 for $130,000, was that in writing somewhere? 7 A He had it started. It was, if you want to 8 talk to -- I think it's -- what's it called? Amador 9 Title, Mother Lode Title, Amador Title. Amador Title, 10 the one that's -- not the one -- 11 Q Not George Ryan; the other one? 12 A The other one. There is only two. Yeah, 13 it was the other one. 14 Q And it was started? Escrow was started? 15 A Yeah, everything -- I don't know if escrow 16 was started because no money was there. 17 Q Okay. And this guy walks? 18 A Well, yeah. 19 Q And then you pump the tanks down pretty 20 much empty? 21 A (Witness nods head.) 22 Q You know that because you stick the tank 23 at the end? Or you know that's how good your vacuum is? 24 A No. I stick the tank at the end. When 25 you are pumping out a tank, if you lose vacuum on it, you 976 1 might not pump it all out. I always check it to make 2 sure. 3 Also check the tank before for any water 4 or anything else in it, too. There is usually a little 5 bit of water left in it because the water stays at the 6 bottom. That's why you leave a little bit in there. 7 Q And there is a -- a Vasoline-like stuff, 8 if you are getting -- that you can actually put on the 9 stick to decide whether or not it's water or gas, right? 10 A I use that. 11 Q Did you use it on these tanks? 12 A I use that on every tank I pump out. I 13 don't want to pump any water in my truck. 14 Q Because that tweaks the whole load? 15 A Well, it tweaks my pump. And when pumps 16 are your livelihood, you kind of take care of your 17 livelihood. 18 Q So in this case, you remember you put the 19 stuff on, you stuck the tanks, there was a little bit of 20 gas, and then there was some water? 21 A No. I stuck the tank and there was just 22 nothing on the bottom, is what -- you know, all you see 23 is a residue on the bottom. That's it. 24 Q Okay. And then -- 25 A I don't know whether the tanks -- it's 977 1 because the tanks leaned that way. Because they pumped 2 actually better than normal. Normally, you leave this 3 much, but it pumped. 4 Q Because when you install a tank, you can 5 install it on an angle that goes toward -- 6 A What I do, what I do is, I pump -- when I 7 install a tank above ground -- because I don't install 8 underground tanks. I put it -- I lean it back a little 9 bit so that, if it ever has any water built up in it, 10 they have a plug on the bottom of it, of the tank, so you 11 can open it and take any water out. 12 Q Above-ground tanks? 13 A Yeah. 14 Q Okay. 15 A That's the kind I install. 16 Q Okay. Good. There aren't any plugs on 17 underground storage tanks at the bottom? 18 A Not that I know of. But maybe the new 19 ones, who knows? I haven't even seen one of the new 20 ones, other than the... 21 Q After this guy walks away and the title 22 doesn't go forward, I heard there was a sign posted, For 23 Sale sign, for a while? 24 A Mm-hmm. 25 Q But that wasn't a listing? 978 1 A No, that wasn't a listing. Yes, it was. 2 He listed it with CT Realty. He did. 3 Q Okay. 4 A Because he listed it. He had a listing 5 with CT when Womack bought it. 6 Q Okay. And so it was listed -- 7 A I just remembered that. 8 Q And it was listed in the low hundreds at 9 that point? 10 A I don't even -- it's not -- I don't know. 11 I am not in the business to buy a station. I didn't ask 12 my dad what he was listing at. But I would imagine 13 that's what he wanted. 14 I think he -- he might have lowered it 15 down to the 80s so that he could get the 80,000 out of 16 it. But that is just a surmise, you know, surmising what 17 I -- I would have thought. I am sure that's probably 18 what he did, because that's what he wanted to get out of 19 it. He might have lowered it to the 95, to get -- to 20 make a little bit on it, too, you know. 21 Q To pay off this note so he could do 22 whatever he needed to with the equity in his house? 23 A So he didn't have to get the equity out of 24 his house. 25 Q Boom, note is paid off. Only thing that 979 1 Mason Oil, Inc. loses or Mason Family Trust loses is the 2 Highway 49 -- 3 A Station. 4 Q -- station? 5 A (Witness nods head.) 6 Q Then they would keep the Ione card lock, 7 correct? 8 A We don't own Ione card lock. We own the 9 Ione building. Or Mason Family Trust or whatever owns 10 the Ione building. And they own the bulk plant in 11 Martell. 12 Q So they own the Ione building; not the 13 dirt? 14 A You see, there is two lots there. You are 15 confusing properties. 16 Q I have no idea. Sorry, Mr. Mason. There 17 are two lots there? 18 A Yeah. There is the property. The Mason 19 oil building, which is the green -- I think it's green or 20 tan building. I don't know. Faded. Anyway, and that 21 half of the lot is that. 22 And then there is a station, is the other 23 half of the lot. Which is my cousin's. My grandfather, 24 from what I understand, bought the property and then he 25 built a station there for his nephew to operate so he 980 1 could make a living, and then kept the other part, the 2 other half of the property. 3 So that's what I understand the reason the 4 station got built there and whatever. But that's back in 5 the '50s, I think. 6 Q So that station and those tanks are owned 7 by your cousins? 8 A Yeah. As far as I know. 9 Q So you don't think Mason Oil, Inc. owns 10 those tanks? 11 A (Witness shakes head.) Hm-mmm. 12 Q The Walsh card lock. Who owns what there? 13 A Well, from what I understand, the Walsh 14 card lock, when Toms Sierra bought the Mason Oil Company, 15 they bought the responsibility for all of our card locks. 16 And so they are taking responsibility for all of them as 17 removal of the tanks and whatever. 18 Q You think they own the tanks? 19 A Well, from what I understand. That's my 20 understanding of it. 21 But as I said, that's not part of me, so I 22 never saw anything in writing or anything, but that's 23 what -- from what I understand, that is the deal. 24 Q Before they bought the Walsh card lock, 25 did Mason Oil or the Mason Family Trust own either the 981 1 dirt or the tanks? 2 A We had the -- we had a lease there. And 3 so the lease was the responsibility for the tanks. 4 Q Upgrades, management? 5 A Yeah. 6 Q Stick the tanks, all that kind of stuff? 7 A Any leaks or anything, we are responsible. 8 Q Emerson card lock, same deal? 9 A Same deal. 10 Q So Toms Sierra is going to upgrade those 11 tanks? 12 A In fact, they have upgraded two of them so 13 far. We had one, when we dug down there, was dented, and 14 they couldn't -- they wouldn't certify that it would -- 15 it wasn't leaking, but they wouldn't certify that their 16 coating would work, because it had a dent in it. So they 17 were going to replace it. 18 In fact, they have ordered a new tank for 19 there. And we had to leave that in spot until we can get 20 the new tank to put in the same spot. 21 Q Because you needed to have the capacity to 22 sell? 23 A Yeah. We needed -- they had a 12,000 in 24 that spot, and they are going to -- I don't know what 25 they are going to put in there, whether they are going to 982 1 put a split twelve in there or what. But they are going 2 to replace it with a new tank because of the new tank 3 laws, the upgrades that have to be done, we have to -- 4 you have to have a new double-wall tank put in. 5 So, of course, this is coming close to the 6 deadline so, of course, it's three to four months before 7 you can get a new tank, so -- 8 Q The bulk plant -- 9 A We are operating it with just two tanks, 10 in other words, right now. 11 Q The bulk plant is all above ground? 12 A Everything is above ground in the bulk 13 plant. 14 Q And those are Amador County sites, correct? 15 A Right. 16 Q But your dad owns something -- 17 A West Point. 18 Q Was that a Mason Oil facility? 19 A That was -- I don't know whether -- I 20 don't know what -- it wasn't a Mason oil facility. It 21 was a -- it was a -- well, it was operated under Mason 22 Oil sign, but it was leased. 23 Q From somebody? 24 A It was leased to somebody. We own -- Dad 25 owns the ground. 983 1 Q Dad owns the ground? Dad owns the tank? 2 A In fact, he has contracted with Keith 3 Tallia to take the tanks out. 4 Q Dad owns the ground. Dad owns the tank. 5 Dad might be Mason Family Trust or might be Dave Mason? 6 A Yeah. 7 Q Okay. So thanks for the history. 8 Now, the specifics. You wanted 100,000, 9 then you wanted $90,000? "You" being your father? 10 A Not me. But yeah, my father. 11 Q Because Mason Oil doesn't own any dirt, 12 correct? 13 A As far as I know. The Mason Oil, all they 14 owned was, they had the business, was Mason Oil. 15 Q Then at some point, Womack, if you know, 16 contacts your dad. Is that your understanding? Or does 17 your dad contact Womack? 18 A I don't -- I don't know whether my dad 19 contacted Womack or Womack contacted my dad. But it was 20 kind of a natural, because that -- Dad used to own that 21 property above it, where Roland Womack has his office, 22 and -- 23 Q The Victorian? 24 A Yeah. He, at one time, owned it. And he 25 sold it to some -- to Stan Lukewoods, I think it was. 984 1 Q The doctor that was there before? 2 A No. Stan Lukewoods sold it to the doctor. 3 Q So anyway, you owned both parcels, gas 4 station and the Victorian? 5 A (Witness nods head.) 6 Q "You" being Mason Family Trust or your 7 father or someone? 8 A Not me owning any of it. I don't own it. 9 I have a little tiny house in Ione -- that's it -- that I 10 own. 11 Q Okay. 12 A The bank owns, actually. 13 Q So there is a contact. They reached some 14 kind of deal. 15 Was your dad keeping you briefed during 16 this? 17 A No. Other than -- other than he said that 18 he had somebody else that he thought he could sell the 19 station to. 20 Q Okay. 21 A And that he wanted -- that first they were 22 going to have the station there, keep the station. 23 Because, see, the station was already upgraded. It 24 already had the double-wall tanks, and it already had -- 25 the only thing it needed was, this year, you had to add 985 1 either double-wall piping or cathartic protection. 2 That's all. 3 Q So it was close, plus or minus a couple 4 thousand bucks? 5 A Yeah. It was almost a turn crank deal to 6 keep it a station. It had the sniffers in it. It had 7 everything. 8 Q Okay. Prior to that, were you working for 9 Mason Oil in '88? 10 A What? 11 Q Were you working for Mason Oil in '88? 12 A Well, even if I was in college, I was 13 probably working -- when you are having a family, you are 14 in a family, you work for your family. I was born in 15 '54, so I been working for them since. 16 Q Do you remember when the tank was pulled 17 in '88? 18 A Yeah. 19 Q And there was contamination? 20 A The place is an old station, so there was 21 always contamination. You know, there is always a little 22 bit of contamination left over from -- I forget. My dad 23 said -- he said that the place was, like, in the '30s or 24 '40s when it was built. 25 Q Late '30s, I think. 986 1 A So in the old days, when they did it, they 2 just -- half the time, as we found out later over Jake's 3 thing, they just left the tanks, so... 4 Q Okay. And so '88, you remember -- 5 A We cleaned up as much as we could and put 6 a new tank in. 7 Q You put a new tank in? 8 A That double tank. It's a double tank. 9 Q That was '91. 10 I was asking if you remember the '88, 11 where they closed one in place? 12 A Oh, one where they filled it with 13 concrete? 14 Q Yeah. 15 A Yeah, that was -- that was, they just 16 closed it off and took samples and closed. Then they 17 filled it with slurry. 18 Q Okay. And then -- 19 A That was under -- 20 Q Did they take out a waste oil tank then? 21 Or do you remember? 22 A They didn't have waste oil tanks. 23 Q So that was the one on the site closest to 24 Roland's office, correct? 25 A Yes. 987 1 Q So in '91, the tank had a leak? 2 A Well, what happened on '91 is, the tank -- 3 there is a high water table there in the wintertime 4 because all the water comes off of that hill. Okay. The 5 water was leaking into the tank from the top, we found 6 out. It was a crack in the top. And so we immediately 7 pumped it out and then we went from there, and then put 8 the new tank in it. 9 Because what it was doing, it was leaking 10 in the thing. The only way you could fix it was to put a 11 new tank in. So we put -- took the advantage of that. 12 But also, the fact that we wanted to put bigger tanks in 13 there. But because it's all rock, solid rock -- it's 14 shale. The whole hill is shale. And you couldn't fit it 15 in without dynamiting it. 16 Of course, they don't allow you to 17 dynamite in the City of Jackson. So we chiseled out as 18 much as we could to fit that -- that tank just fit. I 19 mean, it just barely fit in there. 20 Q Corner to corner? And you had Tallia do 21 that for you? 22 A Yeah, Keith Tallia put it in. 23 Q Do you remember if Mason Oil took out 24 permits? 25 A Keith Tallia is the person that did it. 988 1 He did all the permits and all the everything. We never 2 did anything on that. Because we -- we aren't in the 3 business to put in tanks. 4 Q Okay. 5 A Or take tanks out. 6 All we -- all he did was, he just -- we 7 had this problem. Keith told him, said, Hey -- Keith let 8 us pay it off over a period of quite a few years. It was 9 $56,000 to do this. And the State was supposed to 10 reimburse us for all of the costs on that, which they 11 never did. And from what I understand, they probably 12 never will. 13 Q Okay. And so that was a long-term loan by 14 somebody to one of the three Mason entities -- by Tallia, 15 and you guys paid Tallia off? 16 A It was no loan. It was Keith Tallia. It 17 was a friendship because we had known him and done 18 business with him for a number of years. He did all of 19 our environmental work. And he was a good enough person 20 to let us do it and saved our behind because we would 21 have had to close the station and we would have had to go 22 under because of it. 23 Q So you took the tank out. There was 24 contamination. You made the hole a little bigger than 25 the preexisting one so you could put in this 989 1 double-walled tank, correct? 2 A Not much bigger. As I said, they chiseled 3 out about as much as they could out of the rock. It was 4 just -- that whole station is made on a slate -- cut out 5 of a slate hill. 6 So I don't know exactly how they did it to 7 begin with. But boy, I -- I would imagine they had to 8 dynamite it when they originally built it or if they had 9 dynamite in those days. 10 Q They took the contaminated soil to the 11 Martell plant for a while? 12 A No, no. 13 Q They talked about doing that and they had 14 to take it all to Forward? Is that what happened? Do 15 you remember? 16 A To where? 17 Q To Forward Landfill in San Joaquin County? 18 A I don't know if they took it to Forward or 19 they took it wherever, to the one down in Bakersfield, 20 Kettleman City. I don't know if they took it there. 21 They had a certificate for where they 22 took the soil. There wasn't that much soil. There isn't 23 any soil there. It's whatever was around the tank. 24 Because that was essentially all it was, until you got to 25 rock. And I don't think there was too much soil around 990 1 the tank. And the tank took up most of the space. 2 Q Okay. And so then in May the weekend 3 before the tank came out or the week before the tank came 4 out, did you know that the station was closing? Did you 5 know that it was going to be demoed by Womack? 6 A (Witness shakes head.) No. 7 Q No? 8 A I didn't know anything. Sorry about 9 that. I didn't know anything. I got a call on Monday, 10 The station is gone. 11 I am going, It's gone? What do you mean 12 "gone"? 13 Q You had no idea? 14 A I had no idea nothing was happening. 15 Q Your dad signed the contract on Thursday 16 or Wednesday of the week before and by Saturday -- 17 A He didn't tell me anything about it. 18 Q Did he tell you at any point that escrow 19 had been opened in early April with Womack? 20 A Hadn't been or? 21 Q Had. Did he tell you -- 22 A No, no. He just -- he hadn't told me 23 anything about that. 24 Q Okay. 25 A The only thing he told me is that Womack 991 1 was thinking of buying the station. And but if -- that 2 he was only going to give this much. That was what was 3 to entail on it. 4 We talked about the other deal, as a 5 father and son, you know, for the loan. And that was it. 6 Q And then -- okay. So you didn't know 7 Womack -- Womack has got this deal. It's going to be 8 60,000. Or you knew that? 9 A I knew the 60,000, because I loaned him 10 the 20. That tells you right now, I knew it. I knew 11 that. 12 And that was the reason that I loaned it 13 to him. It wasn't because I decided that my dad needed 14 $20,000 and gave it to him. 15 Q Did he tell you that he had, three weeks 16 before, received this Tallia bid? 17 A No. I mean, no. What do you mean this 18 Tallia bid? 19 Q The Tallia bid to remove the underground 20 storage tank at 505 Sutter Street. 21 A He talked to Tallia about it -- I didn't 22 know it was a bid -- to get an idea of what it cost. But 23 I think it was because he was talking to him -- it wasn't 24 about that. 25 He was talking to him about the one in 992 1 West Point, because that's the one he is going to do. 2 Tallia is doing in West Point for us as soon as he gets 3 the time to take out -- I think it's two tanks there or 4 three. 5 Q Okay. So he didn't specifically say, I 6 got a bid from Tallia? 7 A (Witness shakes head.) Not that I know 8 of. 9 Q One of the issues for the Grand Jurors is, 10 did your dad know that the site was contaminated? 11 And so I guess my question to you is, did 12 Mason Oil receive the documentation from the County 13 between 1991 and 1998 regarding the contaminated site, if 14 you know? 15 A Uh... No, I don't know for sure. I don't 16 know anything about it, other than, we -- we -- he was 17 trying to get the money from the -- from the State back. 18 And so I assumed that it was -- that it was taken care of 19 and we were just trying to get the money back -- we had 20 already cleaned up. 21 So I don't know. We had -- they had 22 monitor well on site. And they had taken samples. And 23 it showed clean, as far as I know. But -- 24 Q Did you see some documents that -- 25 A No, I never saw any documents. 993 1 Q Because that's the first question, is, 2 have you personally physically seen documents? 3 A (Witness shakes head.) 4 Q Okay. But somebody told you that it was 5 clean? 6 A It might have been my own assumptions that 7 it was clean, because it wasn't -- it wasn't -- from what 8 my understanding was on the site, which I never saw -- I 9 just talked to Tallia -- it wasn't very bad. So that it 10 would -- and since they closed the other side, I thought 11 that after ten years or whatever the time was since we 12 put the new tank in, that it was clean. But I don't 13 know. 14 Q Isn't that contradictory to an earlier 15 statement -- and I am not trying to tie you up, but 16 attorneys sometimes do that. 17 A minute ago, you said, in the old days in 18 the '30s, the tanks leaked. And that's what the 19 contamination is. You said the stuff in '91 would be 20 gone by now. 21 A We hauled all that soil away when -- you 22 know, when they did the new tank. So that's what I 23 assumed that they hauled away, you know. 24 Q But you didn't review Tallia's work to see 25 further work necessary, stuff like that? 994 1 A Not my place. That was my dad's station. 2 I don't -- I -- no, it was not my place. 3 Q So then the letter from Steve Buckley in 4 '93 that said significant contamination still exists at 5 that site. You don't remember seeing that? 6 A I never saw that. 7 Q And your dad never told you, I got this 8 letter from Buckley that says significant contamination 9 still exists? 10 A No, he didn't. 11 Q Okay. And so you didn't -- 12 A I didn't receive it. And I didn't -- if I 13 received it, you know, if it went to me, I would have 14 read it, yeah. But I didn't get one, no. 15 Q Okay. So you didn't see your dad's 16 response back to Buckley saying whatever? Did your 17 dad -- 18 A What did he say? I have no idea. 19 Q Okay. When I met your dad with Ron Hall 20 that first time, your dad called them F'ing something 21 regulators. What was that? 22 I got to ask. These people need to know. You 23 don't have to say the F'ing part? 24 A Do I get to tell them how you threatened 25 to throw him in jail and how you threatened to haul him 995 1 away? 2 Q Walk us through that. 3 A He is a 70-year-old man. And I thought it 4 was pretty cheap shot to get him all riled up like that. 5 Q Absolutely. Go ahead. Tell the story. 6 A And so at the point, he did call them 7 that, because of the fact that you told him that what -- 8 you know, what good is it? You know. 9 Q Walk us through that, please. 10 A We are down at our office, my dad and I. 11 And they just show up. And he says -- he says, You have 12 a problem. I am going to throw you in jail. 13 Q Ron Hall is going to testify and you are 14 under oath. So go ahead and tell the story. 15 A This my own recollection. 16 Q Okay. 17 A I mean, is that you are going to throw him 18 in jail for -- this is -- I don't know the exact words. 19 You guys are better at this than me. You play the game. 20 But it's -- they threatened to throw him 21 in jail. They threatened to fine him a million dollars. 22 And I don't know exactly what the money amount was, but 23 it was way more than anything we have ever seen in our 24 whole lives. 25 Because they give me this, because we are 996 1 an oil company, we should know better than to do this. 2 When we didn't know anything was happening. He says, 3 Well, you pulled thousands of tanks in your career. 4 And I looked at him and I said, The only 5 tank that I have ever even seen taken out was the tank 6 that they took out there and put the new tanks in. We 7 have never taken any out. We don't take tanks out. We 8 didn't do it then. We hire people to do it. We didn't 9 have anything to do with this. I didn't know anything 10 about it. 11 And then I get a call on Monday, on the 12 Monday following the demolition of the station, saying 13 the station is gone. And I had no idea what they were 14 talking about. He is threatening my poor old father. 15 And I -- I look at him and said, Hey, 16 this guy is -- and I told Dave, I said -- and I took you 17 aside and I said, This guy is old. Later. He has got 18 diabetes. He has got high blood pressure. And you are 19 threatening him to take him to jail. You are threatening 20 to fine him more than any bit of money that he has, to 21 take away what little life he has left. And he has no 22 recourse. He didn't even know this was happening. He 23 didn't know anything about it. Other than they might 24 have told him they were going to demolish the station. 25 And I don't know about the permits, other 997 1 than, I thought that they said that they had the 2 permits. But I have no idea. I never saw 'em. I am one 3 of those kinds of people, I guess. I am just stupid. 4 When somebody tells me they are going to do something, I 5 suppose they are going to do it right. 6 I have -- you know, if that's a crime in 7 our country, then why -- why do this? You know what I 8 mean? You might as well -- you can throw most of the 9 people in this county in jail because they -- they take a 10 handshake for a deal. I have always done it that way. 11 You say it's not the right way to do it, 12 but that's the way we have always done it. And 13 hopefully, we get through all of this thing and have a 14 life afterwards. But maybe not. And that's why he has 15 that opinion of bureaucrats. 16 Q Okay. So that's -- 17 A Because somebody threatens him. 18 Q Let's start 1991. Walk me through who 19 threatened him in 1991. Anybody? 20 A In '91? 21 Q Right. When he first stopped not cleaning 22 up his property. Tell me. We will go year by year. 23 1991, the regulators said, Please, Mr. Mason, could you 24 clean this up. 25 Tell me what steps Mason Oil took to clean 998 1 it up in 1991. 2 A For one thing, you are surmising that I 3 knew something. 4 Q If you knew. 5 A I didn't know anything about the letter, 6 so you how can I say that he -- why he said that. 7 Q Okay. 8 A I wasn't there. 9 Q Okay. In 1992? 10 A And I didn't know that. So how can I 11 surmise something from something that I don't know? 12 Q Okay. 13 A You are saying that I know something that 14 I don't know. 15 Q I will ask a different question. If it 16 sounds like that, I apologize. 17 Did you know whether or not Mason Oil in 18 1991, other than overexcavation, did any work at the 505 19 contaminated site? 20 A Other than putting the -- the well in 21 there? 22 Q Yes. 23 A That was all I was told that I -- all we 24 had to do. 25 Q Okay. In 1992, did you have any knowledge 999 1 of any steps taken by Mason Oil to clean up the 2 contamination? 3 A If I known in '91, I would have known in 4 '92. But I didn't know either one of them, because that 5 was all -- I don't know what you are talking about in 6 '92. 7 Was there another letter sent that I 8 didn't know about? Was something else done? 9 Q I can't answer your questions, but I can 10 say that there is a binder here that -- 11 A My dad worked directly with Keith Tallia 12 on it, on the whole site, as far as I know. I don't know 13 what their plan was to do. I don't know what 14 contamination on the site there was. I -- 15 Q Here is a letter. 16 A Like I said, it's not my property. I 17 didn't know anything about that. 18 Q September 30th, 1992. 19 "Mr. Dave Mason: As you are well aware, 20 after January 1st, 1993, manual reconciliation may 21 no longer be valid for leak detection at your 22 facility." Blah-blah-blah. "Failure to complete 23 upgrade requirement is a violation of Health and 24 Safety Code 25299 and may result in a civil penalty 25 of not less than $500 or more than $5,000 for each 1000 1 underground storage tank for each day of violation. 2 "To ensure that the leak monitoring system 3 you installed is appropriate, please contact me and 4 I will meet with you on site. Steve Buckley." 5 Is that the same threat from Mr. Buckley 6 that I gave? Did I say it was a $500 per day per 7 violation minimum fine under California law, none of it 8 waivable, none of it dischargeable? 9 A He put in a double-wall tank with leak 10 protection. That met all of the -- all of the -- all of 11 the things. 12 I don't understand what you are talking 13 about. Buckley wasn't threatening him because he already 14 had put that tank, double-walled tank, with the leak 15 detector in it. It was all -- that's all legal. And 16 that had been done in -- when we took out the old tanks. 17 So I don't know what you are talking about. 18 Q Is that the same statute I quoted to you 19 and your father? 20 A Except for you did all of the totals on 21 it, as far as I understand. 22 Q So I said, if a tank is out of compliance 23 for a year, that's $186,000 minimum fine? 24 A And didn't we -- didn't we explain to you 25 at the time that we did not know anything about it at 1001 1 all? 2 Q I can't answer your question. I am 3 just -- you can go ahead and fill that in. And you can 4 say whatever you want. You can say, yes, that's what you 5 said, Mr. Irey. And do you remember, at the same time, I 6 said this? That's okay for the record. Okay. 7 Did I say that, under California law, 8 hazardous waste disposal is a $5,000 per day minimum 9 fine? 10 A You said that. And you said more. 11 Q And I said up to $25,000 per day, correct? 12 A Right. 13 Q And then I said there is penalty 14 assessments on top of that that make the minimum fine for 15 any one of these counts $13,500? Is that what I said? 16 A Yes, you said that. 17 Q And then did I say that jail -- 18 A As far as I understand. 19 Q -- between zero and three years in State 20 prison? 21 I was giving you ranges; is that correct? 22 A Mm-hmm. 23 Q Didn't I say -- did I say I was going to 24 take your dad to jail? Have I ever in your life 25 mentioned to you that your dad was going to jail in your 1002 1 life? 2 A In the way that you threatened. The way 3 that you put it. 4 Q The way that you took it. 5 A It was the tone that you put. It was not 6 in a cordial and well-meaning manner. It was more of: 7 You did this. You did that. You did this. This is what 8 is going to happen to you if you -- if you don't tell me 9 what happened here. 10 And both of us looked at each other and 11 said, We don't know anything. We would be glad to tell 12 you everything that we know. And we were open to 13 anything, any question that you wanted to ask us. Didn't 14 we also say that? 15 And at that point, you gave us more of: 16 This is the fines. This is -- this is what's going to 17 happen to you and -- but we -- and when you have no 18 knowledge of what you want and you won't ask us what you 19 want, we couldn't answer what you want. 20 Q Did we say we wanted the tank? 21 A Yeah. And we had no knowledge of where 22 the tank was. 23 Q Did we say we wanted the soil? 24 A Didn't say anything about the soil that I 25 remember. I don't know. 1003 1 Q That might have been before we knew that 2 the soil was missing. 3 Did we say anything about the piping? 4 A You said that the piping was taken 5 illegal. But we did not take the piping. We did not -- 6 you said that Mr. Womack moved those and Mr. Womack did 7 this and Mr. Womack did that. 8 But we weren't -- my dad was in San 9 Francisco that weekend. I was at home because it was 10 raining, like, incredibly hard, to use less vernacular 11 words. But it was raining so hard that you couldn't see. 12 And I was home playing with my kids,, tell 13 the truth what I was doing. And I -- I had no -- until 14 Monday, when somebody called me and told me, I didn't 15 know anything about what was going on. 16 Q Okay. And then for the Grand Jurors, how 17 many steps have you taken to try to find the tank before 18 Mr. Womack found the tank? Walk us through the steps you 19 took. 20 A When you have no idea who took the tank -- 21 all we did was call Mr. Womack, and if he knew of 22 anything, please tell 'em where it was. But that's all I 23 did. That's all anything. 24 But I didn't know where the tank was. I 25 didn't even know it was taken. That's how stupid I was, 1004 1 I guess. 2 Q So when you were selling the gas 3 station -- you, because you used the term "you." When 4 you were selling the gas station, being one of your 5 father's three entities? 6 A "You" meaning none of me, you mean? 7 Q Right. None of you. 8 When you were selling the gas station, you 9 were selling it as a gas station to that guy? 10 A As -- as I reported it, as I thought at 11 first, that's what it was. Because it was a turnkey 12 operation, as I said. It had the double-wall tank with 13 the sniffer in it. And all of that all has value, had 14 value to me. 15 Whether Prospect Motors used it for a key 16 lock or whatever -- whatever was done with it, all it 17 needed was minimal to be upgraded to meet the new 18 specifications. 19 Q Close. 1,500, $2,000, correct? 20 A Yeah. 21 Q So at that point, you were selling the gas 22 station and the tanks? 23 A As far as I knew we were, yeah. 24 Q Have you had any conversations with 25 whether your dad was selling the gas station as a gas 1005 1 station to Mr. Womack? 2 A From what I understood, at first it was 3 supposed to be a station. And then Dad said he didn't 4 know if he was going to operate it or not. Then he said 5 he didn't think so later, so... 6 Q So you never saw the bid in April before 7 the tanks came out? 8 A No. 9 Q So you didn't see the $5,600 bid to do it 10 the legal way? 11 A There was no bid, as far as I know. 12 Q Okay. 13 A There was a question -- from what my -- 14 from what I have talked to my dad -- and that's just 15 between my dad and me -- there was just a question of 16 what Tallia would charge to take out of tanks there, if 17 he decided to take it out. 18 Q Okay. 19 A I don't know what -- you know, what 20 entailed on that. And from what I understand, the 21 conversation was not -- didn't have anything to do with 22 the station in Jackson. It was just, he was going to the 23 one in West Point. 24 And he is still going to do the one in 25 West Point as soon as he gets the time. Because my dad 1006 1 has contracted with him to do it when we get the money. 2 Q In '88 Mason Oil takes out permits and 3 they deal with a tank legally? 4 A Not Mason Oil. Keith Tallia. 5 Q In 1991, they do it legally and take out 6 the permits? 7 A Tallia did it for us. I guess he took out 8 the permits. He does all that. 9 You call him up and you say you have this 10 problem. How do we solve it? Okay. And then we -- then 11 we come up with a plan. Then it's done. That's what it 12 was done. 13 Q "We" being Mason Family Trust? 14 A "We" being Mason Family Trust or Mason Oil 15 or whatever, whoever was doing it at the time. 16 Q So did Mason Oil pay for the -- 17 A I don't think so. I think my dad did. 18 Q Okay. 19 A Because... 20 Q So is your dad mad at Womack for this? Or 21 just the Government? 22 A He is -- he is not mad at anybody about 23 this. It's just, this is -- this is -- the way I look at 24 it, it just was a mistake all around, you know. 25 Everybody made mistakes. 1007 1 I guess our biggest mistake was not 2 following up on all of the different things that had to 3 be done. But when somebody says that they have it all 4 done, they have it all done, we have never -- we have 5 never -- we never done the permits or anything for one. 6 We wouldn't even know what you needed. 7 Q Your dad signs the permits. Have you ever 8 seen the permits that your dad signed? 9 A No. 10 Q Okay. 11 A And I -- I -- the only permits he ever 12 signed that I know of were the ones that on the job 13 when -- I don't know if he did -- I think he had to 14 sign -- did he have to sign ones for Keith? I don't 15 know. He signed them all. I don't remember signing any 16 that I know of. If I did, it was a long time ago. 17 Q This has been marked Grand Jury Exhibit 18 61, County permit application for underground storage 19 tank. See that? 20 A Mm-hmm. 21 Q Yes? You have to say yes. 22 A Yes. 23 Q And then the signature. Is this your 24 dad's? 25 A No. 1008 1 Q It's not your dad's signature? 2 A (Witness shakes head.) No. 3 Q And this County permit application for 4 underground storage tank, 1988. Is this your dad's 5 signature? 6 A That's not how he normally signs it, no. 7 Q Okay. 8 A You want me to tell the truth, don't you. 9 Q Absolutely. I bet this looks like his 10 signature, this 1987 county permit application. 11 A That's his signature. 12 Q So the one Grand Jury exhibit 9 is his 13 signature. Grand Jury Exhibit 61 and 62 is not his 14 signature? 15 A Well, it doesn't look like his signature. 16 Q It's a different signature? 17 A It's a different signature than is on the 18 other. 19 Q Okay. So your dad gets pennies on the 20 dollar for his gas station or dimes on the dollar for his 21 gas station, gets a bid from Tallia, gets his money? 22 A As I said, I don't know if he got a bid on 23 that. That was just a side comment on the -- on the -- 24 when he was doing his West Point station. It was not a 25 written bid or anything that I know of. 1009 1 Q Okay. 2 A From what I understand, that's what the 3 conversation was. 4 Q When Mr. Hall and I came and visited you 5 and your father, we reminded you that you were the owner 6 of the underground storage tank, correct? 7 A Many times. 8 Q And that, by law, you were responsible 9 from cradle to grave, correct? 10 A Many times. 11 Q And that Federal and State law have always 12 required that the person who owns the hazardous waste to 13 babysit the hazardous waste, correct? 14 A You didn't say that. 15 Q Do you think that's fair, that if you own 16 the tank, you are responsible for the tank? 17 A I think sometimes life isn't fair. 18 Q Do you think it's fair to walk away and 19 leave an underground storage tank and contaminated soil 20 in the ground and walk away? 21 A Do I think it's fair? Or are you asking 22 Mason Family Trust? 23 Q I am asking David Mason, who had a 24 birthday yesterday. 25 A Oh. You are going to get it right this 1010 1 time, my name? My name is -- on my subpoena was wrong 2 about five times. I am David S. Mason IV on it. I am 3 David -- David Junior. 4 But it's David Reginald Mason is my name. 5 So you can know that anyway, please. 6 And no, I don't think it's a good thing 7 that anybody leaves contaminated whatever on a property, 8 you know, that they are responsible for. But I am also 9 saying that we didn't go to do that. We are paying for 10 the clean-up of this property. We ha